Don’t listen to advice on women by women.
It’s an easy mistake to make, because it seems harmless. I mean listening, paying attention to her needs, being romantic, being respectful; none of this seems obviously wrong. But as we have seen, it will get you friendzoned fast and hard.
So are woman hateful creatures giving bad advice to ruin men? By no means.
Thought experiment. Addend every piece of advice a woman gives you with the words, “…from a man I am very attracted to.” The Social Pathologist has it right, women are attracted to the strength and dominance of a bad boy. Unless a girl has gone wrong psychologically she is not usually attracted to the negative aspects (the lying, the cheating, the using). She’s just willing to forgive it because she is very attracted. She is telling you how she wishes a bad boy would treat her.
Never forget, for beautiful women, unattractive men don’t exist as males. Note that this is not a judgement, taking a leaf from Athol Kay, her female body agenda is to produce offspring that will survive and thrive; anything that looks like it can’t provide that is not nearly the same priority. Taking another leaf from Athol Kay, this is all advice for how women wish Alphas (Power) would provide more Beta (Comfort).
This is another reason why I just love women who demand masculinity from you. There are women out there who are very clear that they want a MAN, not a boy. This can be taken to extremes (there are some women for whom no shit test will ever validate, no matter how many times you pass, and they are genuinely to be pitied). Barring extremes, these women are extremely pleasant to be around, they make it far easier to be manly, because they aren’t constantly fighting benevolent demonstrations of strength. I think all of us like being men are on a heart level, so getting dividends from a woman for fulfilling your own deep, heart level, desire is tremendous fun.
I had intended to write something more on the cheerful and practical side, but that will have to wait until next time.
This entry was inspired by the following quote from an anonymous commenter on my “At the risk of alienating everybody…” post:
“Sooner or later men and women are going to have to recognize that the problems men blame on feminism, the problems women blame on patriarchy, and the atomization of anglo society is the culture itself. Its not the men, its not the women, its the culture. The complementary nature of Continental Feminism is rooted in its culture, and it shows what SHOULD have occurred in anglo society if the notion of women as the ‘owners of sex’ had been deconstructed as it was by the continental feminists. This has led to a view of male sexuality as a pathology.
Until the anglosphere gets over its archaic separate spheres doctrine men as an evil ogre, while assuming the female to be a penniless damsel, the atomization of anglo culture with continue.”
I think this post speaks a lot of what I believe “big picture” wise (barring the Continental Feminism, I haven’t read much about it, although I intend to, I just can’t speak to it now).
The culture at large has a general understanding of men and women that I find demeaning to both. Within the manosphere and feminism at large it seems like a series of compounding overreactions and oversimplifications. The man as “evil ogre” is something you can find evidence for; masculine sexuality, when perverted, leads to the worst manifestations of sexuality. The woman as penniless damsel is not nearly as bad, but is still dehumanising and harmful, although not for all of the reasons you might suspect.
On the road to becoming fully human, both sexes need to reach their fullest potential while recognizing that nature has carved out broad roles where the sexes diverge. I don’t care how strong and independent you think you are, if you are pregnant or a woman with small children, you are vulnerable. The male instinct to protect and provide is going to valuable to you like you wouldn’t believe. I have worked with a lot of single mothers of various stripes and their lives are wicked hard. This isn’t to say that none of these women brought this on themselves, but the tragedy is they brought it on their children as well. For all of that, their children are still a wonderful thing, who all have the potential for lives worth living.
If you are a man, your burden is by nature different. Your burden is that you are, in a sense, expendable.Vis-a-vis the propagation of mankind you just aren’t as necessary. This is a fact. This manifests itself in that, for most of us, apart from God, most likely your family and close friends if you have any, nobody gives a tinkers’ damn if you reproduce or are happy or anything else. And that’s okay. This is part of the reason you have a drive to prove yourself and proving yourself is the male equivalent of childbirth. Whether that is in industry, or war, or the realms of philosophy, the journey to prove yourself is fulfilling.
These are things that are distinct to men and women. They cannot be constructs, the biology is just too clear. Any culture that ignores or transposes these facts is begging for trouble.
Women (again, barring the outliers of the barren and so forth) cannot ignore the biology of when they are fertile or not. Men cannot ignore the biology of proving themselves worthy of continuing the species, of manifesting qualities worth passing on. Women who spend their lives trying to prove themselves in spheres that men biologically need more than they do, at the expense of reproduction, and men trying to engage in acts of reproduction without any real sense of whether or not they deserve to reproduce (the womanizing at the expense of self development) are symptoms of a sick culture.
A culture that values stable families and productive men will outstrip those that don’t. Look, the mass of people will work towards their own self interest only in a limited sense. It is not in the nature of uncontemplative man or woman to think that far ahead, and I mean a few years ahead, let alone eternity. People will chase dopamine, oxytocin, and vasopressin. Wise cultures bind those things up in the most profitable paths. Incidentally these paths tend to bring greater fulfillment.
This is where I have landed. Game developed so that in a more chaotic sexual culture, men who were not natural alphas could get what they want or need. It was in a response to the kind of chaos Anglosphere feminism had created. And both philosophies (Game as a philosophy of mating with as many attractive women. not merely a set of tools on how to be a man with a woman) are just childish bullshit. It’s quality versus quantity. One woman you love, who respects you, and who you know that you are internally sympatico with is just plain better than x number of orgasms. A worldview where you view yourself as victim turned victimizer (justified you understand, on account of [insert rationalization for bad behavior]) is just as sick.
Culture is key and it can only change one mind at a time. The decadence of the late Roman Empire eventually gave rise to the Middle Ages and Renaissance. When individual men and women decided they wanted more and found that more in God, the eruption of beauty that resulted still astounds the modern mind.
Climbing off the soap box and my own self indulgent ramblings, yes, it is true that there are statistics that show how poorly the average man or woman behaves in this sick culture of ours. But you don’t have to marry the average women in aggregate. My only hope is that I can help somebody become better than average and that they can marry better than average. With any luck it might someday be me.
If you’re like me, dating felt like magic. I would go for months without any success, and then some girl would seem to fall from the sky. Things would go well for a while, and then it would all, inexplicably go away. I tried hard, but it seemed like I couldn’t win, even if a girl was interested, she didn’t stay interested and just melted out of my life.
Honestly, it feels like magic doesn’t it? No one’s interested and then if they are, of course, that’s doomed to end by her choice.
But, the good news is, is that it isn’t magic, not totally. When you became interested in women, you started playing a game where you didn’t know the rules, so it follows that you would never win, in this case, the cards were really stacked against you. It’s nothing to feel bad about, it really isn’t your fault, it only stays your fault if you don’t learn the rules when you have the opportunity.
I call them “rules”, but they are really natural laws, ways I believe God has designed the world of men and women to work, of the same nature as other natural laws, like gravity. If a girl gets interested, but doesn’t stay interested, that’s actually a really good sign! If she got interested at all, that means you’ve got what it takes to get a girl interested doesn’t it? You’re not helpless, because something you have or did got her into you at least initially. And why wouldn’t she? You’re the descendant of countless men who have been able to attract women into their lives, just by virtue of being here, this is natural law. She saw something of that heritage in you and was drawn to it. She was drawn to who you really are.
Of course that begs the question, why didn’t she stay interested? Well, you know it’s not because of who you really are, that drew her to you. The only explanation is that you obscured your birthright of attractiveness, you did or didn’t do something, that was at fundamental odds with what she first saw, and so she left. This is the first rule, being congruent with you are, what God designed you to be, and designed all your forefathers to be. Of course this involves knowing how to really get self knowledge, to know who you truly are.
The Summa Theologica is downright amazing when describing how things really go down inside your head. According to Aquinas, when our “passions” (the part of the emotion you feel in your body) get going it hampers our ability to think and make decisions. Psychologists call this phenomenon an “amygdala hijack”.
When you’re in the presence of anything you fear, your body starts preparing itself for a life and death struggle, a place where you don’t need to think because you don’t have time, where your entire physiology is gearing itself towards getting you to safety. And come on, don’t we all feel fear talking to a beautiful woman? Nervousness, and, if you admit it to yourself, fear of what you’ll think of yourself if she does shut you down, the real cause of “fear of rejection”.
I mean it makes a kind of sense, who hasn’t been rejected by a woman, and immediately felt a tinge of despair, I mean, thoughts like “Well of course she doesn’t want me either”. Your mind sees things clearly even if you can’t verbalize it, if you think a course of action is leading you towards feelings of embarassment and despair, of course you’re going to get nervous, of course you’re going to want to get out of there, or not approach a girl at all.
So, what’s the solution? A bunch of cheesy self affirmations? “Positive Thinking” perhaps? You know the sort of thing that happens, people tell you that if you just think things will turn out right they will, but you also know the first time it doesn’t turn out right your belief in “Positive Thinking” falls apart, and you’re left feeling just as alone and desperate as before, probably worse.
But there is something you can do. There are some things you can learn. Aquinas discusses this very issue, of how a man can show bravery even when his “passions” are shutting him down.
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#1 There is a temptation to view “getting better with women” as a skill, in the same sense that kicking a football is a skill.
Women are human beings. They have desires and dreams just like the rest of us. Using a woman that you have no real interest in as a test subject for getting better at this “skill” is wrong. In the old days they used to call it leading someone on. Don’t make romantic advances towards a woman in a way that does not reflect what you truly intend. She does not exist for you to use her as a stepping stone towards someone you really do want. This is not to say that you shouldn’t talk to a woman unless you are interested in her. You should try to talk to as many people as possible, but if it is not right, then don’t take it further.
#2 Follow your conscience. If anything I recommend on this page contradicts a moral conviction of yours, don’t think it is “necessary”, and don’t follow it. You may want to research your conviction to see if it is true, but nothing is worth a bad conscience.
#3 Use your head. No advice relieves you of your duty to think. Now there is thinking and there is thinking. “Take 3 Steps” doesn’t mean walking towards a bridesmaid during a wedding ceremony! An exaggeration, but I think you get the point.
#4 Don’t be afraid to step away and come back later. Getting immersed in learning about human relationships is easy to do. It’s fascinating and it is fun. But don’t just keep pressing on, a good rule of thumb is that if you’re getting more and more tired while researching, it’s time to stop for a little while.
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#5 Take all of this as serious as necessary, and no more so! You can’t stop mistakes from happening, and you shouldn’t let fear of mistakes keep you from doing anything. Try to keep perspective, as CS Lewis talks about in the Screwtape Letters, we are all subject to the “law of undulation”, energy, interest, and ability are not static or linear.
If you’ve gotten to hello and had a good interaction, it is best to set up a date right then and there. This is also one of the few times where having some concrete plan beforehand is a good idea. Suggest dinner, coffee, walk in the park, whatever, and set up a date and time. Asking for her phone number flows naturally, so you can coordinate.
This is a solid idea for several reasons. First, it robs the whole “getting the digits” thing of formality. It makes it easier for her to give you her phone number. Next, if you set a date and time, you can cut down on the irritating problem of getting a girl’s phone number, only to have her never pick up. You probably won’t completely get rid of this problem, but the “flake rate” will start trending down.
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This is also a good “leading” behavior, and can communicate decisiveness. You also are seeing how “serious” she is about you, giving her a chance to say no. So on that level it’s also a great time and effort saving device.
An extra word about “fear” since that seems to be the dominant experience holding most men who have trouble dating back. I know that when I first started, actually talking to girls was a big enough step, and I didn’t usually take it to the next step.
Aquinas makes a distinction between two kinds of fear, a rational fear, the kind of thing that keeps you from walking out into traffic, and irrational fear. Irrational fear is, generally, when you let a fear of a small thing overwhelm your pursuit of a greater thing. This is why we admire courage, if there was nothing to fear it wouldn’t be that laudable.
You don’t have to “feel” brave to “be” brave,
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A healthy relationship is built based on trust and also honesty, being honest and truthful to your partner is also another way of giving each other a secure feelings and also trust whenever your partner is not around. So remember to apply these two things in your relationship, never lie and be yourself.
There are some areas that you can start by being honest to each other, now here are some of the areas to explore.
1. Plans and Objectives. Before your relationship becoming more serious, it’s important to see if you both have the same plans for the future. Stable relations were damaged over time because partners have not talked openly about what they want in the future, so if you think seriously talked candidly about what you want. Perhaps you want a more open relationship, and to meets other swingers on websites such as Pearl tree.
2. Money. In a period in which the financial aspect is a problem, the subject of money is really essential for a couple. There should be no secrets about the size of your wallet. I know that money is a very sensitive thing to discuss, but I’ve seen many relationships were torn apart because there was no honesty regarding how much you earn, spend, save and all these problems could lead into many kind of arguments even an affair, so you really need to clear things up about this money issue with your partner and no secrets. Remember that money is certainly not everything in life, but it is important.
3. Sex. They say that sex is not the most important element in a relationship, but that does not mean is not significant. If something goes wrong for any of you, then you need to discuss this with your partner. I know that It is always embarrassing to talk about sex, but if you really love your partner then you’d want her/him to be happy and also save right? Also in a future, if you want to have children then you should talk about any issues regarding your sex life with your partner, don’t be shy and just be opened.
4. Work. Stress at work will follow you home. Even if you try to keep your worries aside a terrible day at work is reflected in the attitude you have when you get home. Should you talk to your lover about the problems they encounter because if you do not, you might like to explode at some point. It can often be a good idea to relax with a massage.
5. Bad habits. A small number of bad habits can cause substantial damage to the couple. And you have to tell your lover what bothers you and what ticks may correct them. At the same time, you have to be prepared to hear that you’re not perfect either.
Talk to your lover about the things you expect from him and from your life as a couple. Give him a chance to know you as you are and do not let him create a wrong impression about you, because the truth will come out soon or later.
We all know the laundry list of what women say they like in men, “confidence, “funny”, etc. And the truth is that this is actually pretty accurate, women do like these things.
Unfortunately it’s also true that trying to be confident and funny leads to a man bombing nine times out of ten. Knowing why women say these things, and why your attempts fail, however can lead you to the key to creating instant real attraction to women. Not knowing why is the root of the problem that most men when they try to “be what women want” and end up crashing and burning.
Women aren’t being dishonest. They really do like confident, funny men. The thing is, confident, funny behaviors are “secondary”. They are the side effects of the primal qualities of the naturally attractive man. He acts confident because he is strong and courageous, and that strength and courage creates changes in his body language and personal style which women label confidence. He says humorous things, because he is relaxed and secure, the same way it’s always easier to be funny around your friends, you are relaxed and secure with them.
This is also why attempts to be confident or funny fail when you directly pursue them. When you go after side effects instead of primal principles, you come off as “macho”, posturing inauthentic masculinity, or “clownish”, humor that stems from a desire to be liked more than anything else.
Most of what concerns us are really the secondary effects of the major choices that we make. Thoughts present themselves to our minds and we validate or invalidate them based on our real principles, leading to action or inaction. A man who postures at manliness is a man who has validated the idea that he is not a man, but has to pretend to be to get what he wants. A man who is really confident has validated the idea that he is a man and doesn’t need to posture.
The concrete steps you can take are as follows. Courage is present in all of us a little bit. We have all done brave things, even if they were only little brave things. We know how to be courageous. But courage is like a muscle, to get stronger, you have to use it. Every time a fearful thought presents itself to your mind, their reaches a point, where you can make a deliberate choice to either validate that thought, accept it as genuine, or invalidate it, not let it be a factor. And we all know when a fear is big enough to legitimately change our actions, nobody feels guilty about not walking into traffic. It is the illegitimate fears that nail us, that weaken our strength, cause us to feel guilty and think ill of ourselves.
Every fear is like an object being presented to you, in your mind, regardless of your feelings, you also know whether it should cause you to change course or not. Fear of a girl you don’t know not liking you is total nonsense. So, you can validate it, and get the bonus prizes of shame, guilt, and regret, or you can invalidate it, with the added bonuses of increased strength and confidence.
No one can make this decision for you, which is kind of like being a man,
How many girls have you asked out? How many straight nos have you received?
Back in college I asked out a string of girls, big string, tried to ask one a day for a while and learned several things.
1.) A girl will give her number to a stray dog.
2.) You can tell a girl wasn’t interested if she doesn’t pick up her phone, or you receive a call from her boyfriend.
3.) If a girl gives you a straight no, thank her, she just refrained from wasting your time.
I went through the full scenario at a conservative estimate at thirty times. Pretty frustrating, but the good that came out of it was that it made me dedicated to understanding the whole issue of men and women.
Here’s the deal, women are human beings. Being human, just like the rest of us, they want to avoid hurting someone’s feelings and avoid confrontation. It’s a lot easier to just give a guy your number (interestingly enough I never received a fake number, she just didn’t pick up), than to give him a straight no and risk a conversation where a guy demands she explain why she won’t go out with him. Not a pleasant prospect.
At first I was angry, stayed angry for a while. The worst part was hopes being raised by getting a phone number, and then being dashed. Again and again. And Again. When a girl gave me a straight no after fifteen flakes I verbally thanked her for not wasting my time.
The fact of the matter is things are a lot more complicated than they were in my father’s day. According to him the standard sequence was, you asked a girl out, she said yes or no, if she said no you acted like a man and moved on. If she said yes and after a few dates declined again, you acted like a man and moved on. Saved women the unnecessary experience of having to justify herself and saved men from a lack of clarity. Not so now.
What’s the solution? Get better with women in general. The more attraction you generate on the front end, the more likely she is to pick up, and I tell you it feels great when you finally hear that voice on the other end of the line.
Next, accept it for what it is. If a girl doesn’t pick up, leave a message, ask her to respond, if she doesn’t move on. Don’t take it too hard if it doesn’t go your way. If she isn’t straight with you, it’s not a serious failing. Don’t get angry, don’t get bitter, it’s just the rules of the game as it stands. If it happens a few times, no big deal luck of the draw.
If it happens thirty times in a row, check for a whole in your game. Move forward, get feedback, adjust course. Don’t overthink, don’t underthink, remember your principles. As long as you move forward and adjust based on feedback it will get better.
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On a gut level we all know that if we don’t have real hope about something, we can’t move forward to getting it. We know that real hope, the belief that something good is going to come our way, is kind of the fuel of real courage, real guts. I also know that a lot of my attempts to impress women failed because I didn’t really think I had a shot, but was just going through the motions. That’s why finding out that a girl likes you beforehand makes it A LOT easier to “be cool” around her. You have hope, so you take heart and charge in, because you know that the risk is small.
This is why it seems difficult to have better social skills with women in general. If you’re talking to a girl that you don’t know you’re flying blind with regard to whether or not she likes you. And, I know it was true for me, that I had a general attitude that the cards were stacked against me. I also didn’t think that there was anything I could really do, not really, to change myself.
Why did I think this way? Because I felt it. Somewhere along the way I picked up enough bad experiences to implant the idea in my mind and the feeling in my body that, hey, you know you’re not good enough. There are only two opinions in the world you can never escape from, God’s opinion of you, and your opinion of yourself. So, my opinion was no good.
Saying that you have to get success first, to believe that you are capable of attracting women is backwards. If you don’t start out believing “I am good enough”, then you won’t get success, or, if you do, you’ll still feel like a fraud. But, the good news is that if you come from this place of hopelessness, you don’t have to stay there.
The key is to get your beliefs in line with reality. The fact that you have free will, that you can make better decisions, learn new skills, is a fact. Read bios of people who’ve turned their lives around. Look for success stories. Look at the Bible, where people are consistently blessed by God for doing right, and reproved for doing wrong. God is not cruel, I don’t believe He is harsh on people for things that are beyond their control. I also don’t think He’s arbitrary, He blesses people who please Him, and what they do to please Him is under their control. But, it’s a fact that gets sidelined in the face of bad emotions and memories of past failures.
“Manliness” is a virtue, it’s the chief thing that is attractive to women and is heavily under our control. The key exercise is, when faced with a memory of past failure, or bad emotions about interacting with women, is to consciously reject it as untrue that you can’t do better. Then act like you can do better. Course correct. A little courage, and you’ll find you feel better about yourself and your prospects almost instanteously.It may be a while before your feelings and beliefs consistently (every time) coincide with each other, where you not only improve, but feel great about the process (and positive emotions shine through to women, very attractive), but it’s a nearly inevitable result.
Small steps towards acting by by the truth, and rejecting hopelessness not only as unpleasant, but as false, will reap some of the biggest rewards in your relationships with women, perhaps more than anything else. It’s foundational.